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	<title>Comments on: Does DNA Link 1991 Killing to Colonial-Era Family?</title>
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	<description>Adding DNA to the Genealogist&#039;s Toolbox</description>
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		<title>By: Ponto</title>
		<link>http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2012/01/11/does-dna-link-1991-killing-to-colonial-era-family/comment-page-1/#comment-7129</link>
		<dc:creator>Ponto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/?p=1494#comment-7129</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, I have to agree with the fact that genealogists are the most frequent abusers of other peoples&#039; records including dna results. I have done the same with my Maltese ancestors by using the results of baptism, marriages, funerals from the Adami Collection. I have often thought how these ancestors would have felt with some person (me) poking around their records just because of some minor ancestor shared with them. I also think solving serious crime is more important than any individuals concern about privacy. The unlawful killing of another person is a serious crime.

Recently I had my STR results, kit number and surname written about on dna forums. It was some bull about the mythology of some ethnic group&#039;s creation stories, nothing based on science, the dna itself or my specific results. I was momentarily incensed. I left my surname group at FTDNA upsetting the Administrator as I am the closest match to her paternal line. I deleted my Ysearch account. I have reversed these things but I intend to leave FTDNA permanently, have them totally delete my account by the end of 2012. Using surname projects and STR results for silly racist ideas is definitely beyond the pale. I will eventually delete my 23andMe account this year or the next. I think dna testing has had its day in the sun.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I have to agree with the fact that genealogists are the most frequent abusers of other peoples&#8217; records including dna results. I have done the same with my Maltese ancestors by using the results of baptism, marriages, funerals from the Adami Collection. I have often thought how these ancestors would have felt with some person (me) poking around their records just because of some minor ancestor shared with them. I also think solving serious crime is more important than any individuals concern about privacy. The unlawful killing of another person is a serious crime.</p>
<p>Recently I had my STR results, kit number and surname written about on dna forums. It was some bull about the mythology of some ethnic group&#8217;s creation stories, nothing based on science, the dna itself or my specific results. I was momentarily incensed. I left my surname group at FTDNA upsetting the Administrator as I am the closest match to her paternal line. I deleted my Ysearch account. I have reversed these things but I intend to leave FTDNA permanently, have them totally delete my account by the end of 2012. Using surname projects and STR results for silly racist ideas is definitely beyond the pale. I will eventually delete my 23andMe account this year or the next. I think dna testing has had its day in the sun.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2012/01/11/does-dna-link-1991-killing-to-colonial-era-family/comment-page-1/#comment-7126</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/?p=1494#comment-7126</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@6 - not so.

[a] HLA types are the names given to different haplotypes of the various genes in the HLA region.  These are not easily determined by SNP typing, because the genes are too polymorphic - see e.g. http://www.ebi.ac.uk/imgt/hla/

[b] there are however several attempts ongoing to impute HLA types from SNPs on common GWAS chips - see e.g. https://oxfordhla.well.ox.ac.uk/hla/

[c] but, like the case at hand, these only really allow statistical conclusions, not ones that can be applied with confidence to a specific individual.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@6 &#8211; not so.</p>
<p>[a] HLA types are the names given to different haplotypes of the various genes in the HLA region.  These are not easily determined by SNP typing, because the genes are too polymorphic &#8211; see e.g. <a href="http://www.ebi.ac.uk/imgt/hla/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ebi.ac.uk/imgt/hla/</a></p>
<p>[b] there are however several attempts ongoing to impute HLA types from SNPs on common GWAS chips &#8211; see e.g. <a href="https://oxfordhla.well.ox.ac.uk/hla/" rel="nofollow">https://oxfordhla.well.ox.ac.uk/hla/</a></p>
<p>[c] but, like the case at hand, these only really allow statistical conclusions, not ones that can be applied with confidence to a specific individual.</p>
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		<title>By: Genetic profiling: CSI edition &#124; Biology News by Biologged</title>
		<link>http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2012/01/11/does-dna-link-1991-killing-to-colonial-era-family/comment-page-1/#comment-7113</link>
		<dc:creator>Genetic profiling: CSI edition &#124; Biology News by Biologged</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2012 07:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/?p=1494#comment-7113</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Moore and Blaine Bettinger have covered this story in detail, so I won&#8217;t go much further in this specific case. But as [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Moore and Blaine Bettinger have covered this story in detail, so I won&#8217;t go much further in this specific case. But as [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Genetic profiling: CSI edition &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2012/01/11/does-dna-link-1991-killing-to-colonial-era-family/comment-page-1/#comment-7112</link>
		<dc:creator>Genetic profiling: CSI edition &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2012 07:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/?p=1494#comment-7112</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Moore and Blaine Bettinger have covered this story in detail, so I won&#8217;t go much further in this specific case. But as [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Moore and Blaine Bettinger have covered this story in detail, so I won&#8217;t go much further in this specific case. But as [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Polo-Go</title>
		<link>http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2012/01/11/does-dna-link-1991-killing-to-colonial-era-family/comment-page-1/#comment-7111</link>
		<dc:creator>Polo-Go</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jan 2012 04:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/?p=1494#comment-7111</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;And keep in mind that if a criminal is identified using this method [use of public genetic genealogy DNA databases for crime scene leads], it is the criminal activity that endangered him, NOT the public Y-DNA databases!&quot;

So where is the objectivity in this method finding &#039;matching profiles&#039; instead of &#039;criminals&#039;?  And what about degree of certainty over probability, does that even matter?  Those are the objections at the root of whether using this as a resource for law enforcement is plausible or fallible- me being just a layperson and not a scientist/paid-professional.  

Soliciting public DNA databases should only yield &#039;probabilities&#039; for matches, not the certain answer of a committed crime.  Mark Minick found this out in 2008; Google his name and how his DNA found its way into a DailyMail-UK article (although there are 15 other hits for Mark Minick in the U.S. so you never know!).  Although I&#039;m sure his DNA was drawn from a &#039;localized&#039; pool (criminal one) he was still was found complicit to an event he did not take part of and paid the consequences nonetheless.  And you feel it is a good idea to search &#039;remote&#039; pools (such as ancestor/sibling profiles) and up the probabilities to incriminate a given profile to a match?  That sounds like taking at face value your first course plot when navigating via dead-reckoning, you will only increase the degree of error to get to your final destination.  Read commenter No. 5&#039;s post.

If you want to bring to the table the positives or negatives of using public DNA as a &#039;search&#039; tool, then you must objectively examine its true value to answering the given question, not whether it can answer it.  Statistics can also yield answers, any of a thousand you wish...    So when genealogists/paid-professionals such as Commenter No. 1 and No. 4 stop putting such smug feelings behind DNA being so wonderful at literally putting criminals and their brothers in jail so they can do cameo interviews in TruTV shows, then laypersons like us will not be so reticent to give out samples for things we want to consent to, like genealogy or genetic ailment tests or others- lest we also wind up like Mark Minick by proxy of increased probabilities within this method.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And keep in mind that if a criminal is identified using this method [use of public genetic genealogy DNA databases for crime scene leads], it is the criminal activity that endangered him, NOT the public Y-DNA databases!&#8221;</p>
<p>So where is the objectivity in this method finding &#8216;matching profiles&#8217; instead of &#8216;criminals&#8217;?  And what about degree of certainty over probability, does that even matter?  Those are the objections at the root of whether using this as a resource for law enforcement is plausible or fallible- me being just a layperson and not a scientist/paid-professional.  </p>
<p>Soliciting public DNA databases should only yield &#8216;probabilities&#8217; for matches, not the certain answer of a committed crime.  Mark Minick found this out in 2008; Google his name and how his DNA found its way into a DailyMail-UK article (although there are 15 other hits for Mark Minick in the U.S. so you never know!).  Although I&#8217;m sure his DNA was drawn from a &#8216;localized&#8217; pool (criminal one) he was still was found complicit to an event he did not take part of and paid the consequences nonetheless.  And you feel it is a good idea to search &#8216;remote&#8217; pools (such as ancestor/sibling profiles) and up the probabilities to incriminate a given profile to a match?  That sounds like taking at face value your first course plot when navigating via dead-reckoning, you will only increase the degree of error to get to your final destination.  Read commenter No. 5&#8242;s post.</p>
<p>If you want to bring to the table the positives or negatives of using public DNA as a &#8216;search&#8217; tool, then you must objectively examine its true value to answering the given question, not whether it can answer it.  Statistics can also yield answers, any of a thousand you wish&#8230;    So when genealogists/paid-professionals such as Commenter No. 1 and No. 4 stop putting such smug feelings behind DNA being so wonderful at literally putting criminals and their brothers in jail so they can do cameo interviews in TruTV shows, then laypersons like us will not be so reticent to give out samples for things we want to consent to, like genealogy or genetic ailment tests or others- lest we also wind up like Mark Minick by proxy of increased probabilities within this method.</p>
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		<title>By: John Lloyd Scharf</title>
		<link>http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2012/01/11/does-dna-link-1991-killing-to-colonial-era-family/comment-page-1/#comment-7097</link>
		<dc:creator>John Lloyd Scharf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/?p=1494#comment-7097</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To my knowledge, you could not type HLA from SNPs as they are determined by STRs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To my knowledge, you could not type HLA from SNPs as they are determined by STRs.</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2012/01/11/does-dna-link-1991-killing-to-colonial-era-family/comment-page-1/#comment-7096</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2012 00:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/?p=1494#comment-7096</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I dispute the probability assertions as to the surname and note that actual probilities aren&#039;t stated. It is yet another aspect which can&#039;t be evaluated. 

The seminal article on the subject (King &amp; Jobling, 2009, &quot;Founders, Drift,..&quot;) found an inverse correlation between Y-DNA and surname frequency; the more common a surname, the less likely persons holding it will have a match. My own study of the sbject suggests that -- while there is an association between surnnaem and Y-DNA -- it is much less strong than commonly believed, including by DNA surname project administrators.  

With common surnames, we often see those with very many matches. Even with high resolution and quallity, the surnames aren&#039;t in high agreement.  

King and Jobling did propose just this method for identifying criminals but, as their own data shows, it would work well only for rare surnames. It&#039;s of limited usefulness. 
-ralph taylor, Taylor Family Genes at FTDNA]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dispute the probability assertions as to the surname and note that actual probilities aren&#8217;t stated. It is yet another aspect which can&#8217;t be evaluated. </p>
<p>The seminal article on the subject (King &amp; Jobling, 2009, &#8220;Founders, Drift,..&#8221;) found an inverse correlation between Y-DNA and surname frequency; the more common a surname, the less likely persons holding it will have a match. My own study of the sbject suggests that &#8212; while there is an association between surnnaem and Y-DNA &#8212; it is much less strong than commonly believed, including by DNA surname project administrators.  </p>
<p>With common surnames, we often see those with very many matches. Even with high resolution and quallity, the surnames aren&#8217;t in high agreement.  </p>
<p>King and Jobling did propose just this method for identifying criminals but, as their own data shows, it would work well only for rare surnames. It&#8217;s of limited usefulness.<br />
-ralph taylor, Taylor Family Genes at FTDNA</p>
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		<title>By: Nicole</title>
		<link>http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2012/01/11/does-dna-link-1991-killing-to-colonial-era-family/comment-page-1/#comment-7094</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jan 2012 20:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/?p=1494#comment-7094</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi I&#039;m one of those project admins that doesn&#039;t see a problem with this. You are right on with genealogists using records that were not originally intended for that purpose! The dna itself is often a big surprise, I found out my surname should be something different than it is! Within my project I am helping a group of seven men with finding the reason they do not have a certain surname they are matching to and two different surnames match my uncle&#039;s results at the 67marker. So the Fuller result could be a wild goose chase or lead to a viable suspect, which would bring great closer to the family dealing with a cold case. I agree the general lack of education is what causes fear in this situation and recruiting problems as well. Bottom line if you have something to hide don&#039;t submitt your dna, however this doesn&#039;t stop your brother, cousin, etc. from submitting theirs! I hope we are moving towards genetic openess too, but I feel some privacy concerns and how the &quot;public&quot; is allowed to use our data do still need to be addressed. 
Nicole Polk Macpherson/McPherson Project Ftdna]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi I&#8217;m one of those project admins that doesn&#8217;t see a problem with this. You are right on with genealogists using records that were not originally intended for that purpose! The dna itself is often a big surprise, I found out my surname should be something different than it is! Within my project I am helping a group of seven men with finding the reason they do not have a certain surname they are matching to and two different surnames match my uncle&#8217;s results at the 67marker. So the Fuller result could be a wild goose chase or lead to a viable suspect, which would bring great closer to the family dealing with a cold case. I agree the general lack of education is what causes fear in this situation and recruiting problems as well. Bottom line if you have something to hide don&#8217;t submitt your dna, however this doesn&#8217;t stop your brother, cousin, etc. from submitting theirs! I hope we are moving towards genetic openess too, but I feel some privacy concerns and how the &#8220;public&#8221; is allowed to use our data do still need to be addressed.<br />
Nicole Polk Macpherson/McPherson Project Ftdna</p>
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		<title>By: W. O. Long</title>
		<link>http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2012/01/11/does-dna-link-1991-killing-to-colonial-era-family/comment-page-1/#comment-7092</link>
		<dc:creator>W. O. Long</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jan 2012 13:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/?p=1494#comment-7092</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have no objection to the use of genealogical DNA databases for legitimate forensic purposes.  But, I am as yet unconvinced that autosomal DNA data in genealogical databases couldn&#039;t be used for HLA typing (organ transplant matching).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no objection to the use of genealogical DNA databases for legitimate forensic purposes.  But, I am as yet unconvinced that autosomal DNA data in genealogical databases couldn&#8217;t be used for HLA typing (organ transplant matching).</p>
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		<title>By: Remembering Sarah Yarborough &#171; AARON HILL’S NOTEBOOK</title>
		<link>http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2012/01/11/does-dna-link-1991-killing-to-colonial-era-family/comment-page-1/#comment-7091</link>
		<dc:creator>Remembering Sarah Yarborough &#171; AARON HILL’S NOTEBOOK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jan 2012 03:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/?p=1494#comment-7091</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] are some skeptics of the report. Since the DNA profile has not been made public, the claim is difficult to verify or [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] are some skeptics of the report. Since the DNA profile has not been made public, the claim is difficult to verify or [...]</p>
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